Memory as Identity
Juan Xu in dialogue with Sàndor Szàsz
Juan Xu: You haven’t personally experienced the flooding in the neighboring village of Bezidu Nou, have you?Anyway, it seems to have influenced you a lot. We can find a lot of scenes about disasters in your art. Have disasters ever triggered any crises in your adult life?
Sàndor Szàsz: The Hungarian community was very sensitive to any act from the regime that threatened their lives. I heard a lot about the flooding from my relatives, mostly adults. The village my grandma lived in was veryclose to the flooding, and I remember my friend and I were very afraid, what if we were the next to suffer? Our river and valley were ideal for another dam, you know. We wanted to sabotage this by detonating the dam since it was a symbol of the regime, but we knew we would be executed if we really carried out that plan. We gave up the idea in the end- we were only 11 years old then. Interestingly, 24 years later, I met the writer Dragomán György, who was three years older than me and of the same origin. It turned out that he had got the same idea, that is, to explode the dam. Later on, he wrote the novel Dam and I did Water Demons.
Juan Xu: Now the European Parliament is criticizing Poland, Hungary, and a few other Eastern European countries for their revision of legal policies. As a citizen of these Eastern European countries, do you think these differences have something to do with the different political and aesthetic experiences?
Sàndor Szàsz: It’s a sensitive topic. Free elections and sovereignty were passed only 28 years ago. Dictatorship and foreign occupation had been there for 45 years. Even so, Hungarians always believe that they are part of Europe. There are conflicts within Europe, but conflicts are unavoidable in a diversified world. I try to understand the causes of such differences, as well as solutions to these headaches. I believe in change, but it takes time for changes to come and for people to adapt to each other. We have to replace confrontation and hostility with effective communication. Lots of Western countries followed a different path. As the German unification told us, to divide a country is far easier than unify it.
Juan Xu: Is the Miracle Child based on your childhood memory?
Sàndor Szàsz: Few countries in Eastern Europe had a stronger guided personal cult of Ceausescu as a national leader than Hungary did. My childhood experience was a strange one. Born in a Hungarian family, I was considered a secondary citizen, but I was a miracle child as well. Kids who shared the same birthday with the leader were called “Miracle Children,” and got special favors, such as gifts from the government. Now let me give you an example. In my primary school we had a sort of a lucky draw and everyone could take part. We had to fill out a form, like name, date of birth, family members (I believe they were collecting data) and so on. The school leadership submitted the form to a center that would draw only one student from the school and give him or her a special gift. 3 times in a row, I won a radio Solo 100. In the end, I came to believe it was not sheer luck every time. It was all prearranged. With this photo installation, I wish to reflect on the idea that “everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.” In the photos, I looked no different from other kids, but our experience was totally different.
Juan Xu: Your sister’s legendary experience has always been on your mind. Why did you decide to include it into your video instead of painting, a form you are very familiar with? Does this work have a relationship with the theme “Capital?”
Sàndor Szàsz: My sister, who is 8 years older than me, had been trying to flee from Romania. I actually grew up in her shadow. I had always believed that she was attempting the impossible until she finally made it. Yearafter year I came to understand how brave she had been when she decided to run away from the hopeless regime. These years, I have tried to find somebody who could make a documentary about her experience, believing that film production differed from painting in its multiple perspectives and sensitivity. Always fascinatedabout video art, I just took the chance and did my own short documentary.
My sister was a person with nothing at all, and the existence of herself was her only form of “Capital.” Only action could bring her real potential Capital. For her, Capital is "hope and imagination.”
Juan Xu: Do you know Julian Barnes? How does that memory affect your art?
Sàndor Szàsz: I’ve heard about him but am not very familiar with his theories. The place where I grew up serves as a very special background in my art. Life in this period of history was by no means easy, but it did offer a very special meaning to my art. The very complicated history in Central/Eastern Europe gives me particular room for reflection and analysis. Our human history is full of unfinished stories, and we live with mistakes left over from history. These errors will not disappear by themselves until we can fully clarify them. Many times, I can sense some sort of collective memory, in the form of reflection or fragmented images. They may not be something around us, nor do they point absolutely to the past. For most of the time, they mean something eternal that has gone beyond history. With these fragments lingering around, I feel pressed to do something for them.
Juan Xu: Please say something about the connection between reality and fiction, memory and identity, ideasand artworks...
Sàndor Szàsz: Growing up in a system of absurdity, I find it hard to tell reality from fiction. That’s why my works build on the border between uncertainty and insanity. I’m curious to interpret decisions that have a strong social impact and transfer it to my own “reality”. After my sister ran away, her story sounded like a movie script, more bizarre than fiction, but it is our reality, absolutely true. In this sense, The Light Sleeper is a recreation of my memories and my feelings.
In the 70s and 80s, Romania made a dash in the name of modernization in the hope of creating a “New Man” and building a so-called “Golden Age.” Hundreds of thousands of people were relocated to industrial cities by force. I Love My Hometown and New Society are symbolic of the violence of political power and utopia, which leads to human catastrophe. My memories and my experiences are my “reality” and “truth” that give me thatsense of belonging.
23.03.2019, Frankfurt am Main
Juan Xu: You haven’t personally experienced the flooding in the neighboring village of Bezidu Nou, have you?Anyway, it seems to have influenced you a lot. We can find a lot of scenes about disasters in your art. Have disasters ever triggered any crises in your adult life?
Sàndor Szàsz: The Hungarian community was very sensitive to any act from the regime that threatened their lives. I heard a lot about the flooding from my relatives, mostly adults. The village my grandma lived in was veryclose to the flooding, and I remember my friend and I were very afraid, what if we were the next to suffer? Our river and valley were ideal for another dam, you know. We wanted to sabotage this by detonating the dam since it was a symbol of the regime, but we knew we would be executed if we really carried out that plan. We gave up the idea in the end- we were only 11 years old then. Interestingly, 24 years later, I met the writer Dragomán György, who was three years older than me and of the same origin. It turned out that he had got the same idea, that is, to explode the dam. Later on, he wrote the novel Dam and I did Water Demons.
Juan Xu: Now the European Parliament is criticizing Poland, Hungary, and a few other Eastern European countries for their revision of legal policies. As a citizen of these Eastern European countries, do you think these differences have something to do with the different political and aesthetic experiences?
Sàndor Szàsz: It’s a sensitive topic. Free elections and sovereignty were passed only 28 years ago. Dictatorship and foreign occupation had been there for 45 years. Even so, Hungarians always believe that they are part of Europe. There are conflicts within Europe, but conflicts are unavoidable in a diversified world. I try to understand the causes of such differences, as well as solutions to these headaches. I believe in change, but it takes time for changes to come and for people to adapt to each other. We have to replace confrontation and hostility with effective communication. Lots of Western countries followed a different path. As the German unification told us, to divide a country is far easier than unify it.
Juan Xu: Is the Miracle Child based on your childhood memory?
Sàndor Szàsz: Few countries in Eastern Europe had a stronger guided personal cult of Ceausescu as a national leader than Hungary did. My childhood experience was a strange one. Born in a Hungarian family, I was considered a secondary citizen, but I was a miracle child as well. Kids who shared the same birthday with the leader were called “Miracle Children,” and got special favors, such as gifts from the government. Now let me give you an example. In my primary school we had a sort of a lucky draw and everyone could take part. We had to fill out a form, like name, date of birth, family members (I believe they were collecting data) and so on. The school leadership submitted the form to a center that would draw only one student from the school and give him or her a special gift. 3 times in a row, I won a radio Solo 100. In the end, I came to believe it was not sheer luck every time. It was all prearranged. With this photo installation, I wish to reflect on the idea that “everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.” In the photos, I looked no different from other kids, but our experience was totally different.
Juan Xu: Your sister’s legendary experience has always been on your mind. Why did you decide to include it into your video instead of painting, a form you are very familiar with? Does this work have a relationship with the theme “Capital?”
Sàndor Szàsz: My sister, who is 8 years older than me, had been trying to flee from Romania. I actually grew up in her shadow. I had always believed that she was attempting the impossible until she finally made it. Yearafter year I came to understand how brave she had been when she decided to run away from the hopeless regime. These years, I have tried to find somebody who could make a documentary about her experience, believing that film production differed from painting in its multiple perspectives and sensitivity. Always fascinatedabout video art, I just took the chance and did my own short documentary.
My sister was a person with nothing at all, and the existence of herself was her only form of “Capital.” Only action could bring her real potential Capital. For her, Capital is "hope and imagination.”
Juan Xu: Do you know Julian Barnes? How does that memory affect your art?
Sàndor Szàsz: I’ve heard about him but am not very familiar with his theories. The place where I grew up serves as a very special background in my art. Life in this period of history was by no means easy, but it did offer a very special meaning to my art. The very complicated history in Central/Eastern Europe gives me particular room for reflection and analysis. Our human history is full of unfinished stories, and we live with mistakes left over from history. These errors will not disappear by themselves until we can fully clarify them. Many times, I can sense some sort of collective memory, in the form of reflection or fragmented images. They may not be something around us, nor do they point absolutely to the past. For most of the time, they mean something eternal that has gone beyond history. With these fragments lingering around, I feel pressed to do something for them.
Juan Xu: Please say something about the connection between reality and fiction, memory and identity, ideasand artworks...
Sàndor Szàsz: Growing up in a system of absurdity, I find it hard to tell reality from fiction. That’s why my works build on the border between uncertainty and insanity. I’m curious to interpret decisions that have a strong social impact and transfer it to my own “reality”. After my sister ran away, her story sounded like a movie script, more bizarre than fiction, but it is our reality, absolutely true. In this sense, The Light Sleeper is a recreation of my memories and my feelings.
In the 70s and 80s, Romania made a dash in the name of modernization in the hope of creating a “New Man” and building a so-called “Golden Age.” Hundreds of thousands of people were relocated to industrial cities by force. I Love My Hometown and New Society are symbolic of the violence of political power and utopia, which leads to human catastrophe. My memories and my experiences are my “reality” and “truth” that give me thatsense of belonging.
23.03.2019, Frankfurt am Main
